City Harvest Case – Why Am I Still Here?
I am from City Harvest Church, and it is a place I call my church and my life. I don’t have grand stories about how I met God here or this is where I met my husband. I can’t even say I’m an ‘old-timer’ member since I’ve only starting attending CHC in the last 15 years. I came a few years before the Crossover Project started. So that’s probably the bestest claim I can make–I was there when the Crossover started.
So why are you still here?
Because I believed and still believe in the Crossover. It was and is a tremendous honor to be a part of this project that saw many salvations and brought revival to many churches in Asia. A dear friend wrote quite a bit on the Crossover here.
But your money! Did you hear where it went?
I heard where it was going before I gave, I heard where it went after I gave, and now I am hearing the same thing when I hear it mentioned in court.
I am an Executive Member in CHC, and I did vote with my mind and heart to give the Board the mandate to invest the money. So it invested in bonds which apparently went around to pay for parts of the Crossover. That’s ok, cos I already said ok earlier.
I am also one of those who contributed to the supposedly secret Multi-Purpose Account (MPA). [By the way, it was secret cos only those who gave knew about it. If you didn’t know, erm, cos it didn’t concern you! I honestly didn’t know everything in life had to be put out in the open.] I gave to the MPA fully aware of the purposes of the fund. I wasn’t coerced into it, and I definitely wasn’t tricked into giving to the MPA.
They took your money! You sure you know about this?
They? You mean the defendants? But they didn’t take my money and put it in their pockets. The money was used for investments which eventually led to financing the Crossover.
And when I gave, I didn’t lose anything. I was still blessed just as I’ve been before the Crossover started. I sowed, and I reaped. The same principle was still very much at work! I had financial breakthroughs, blessings, beautiful children, lovely family etc. I wasn’t shortchanged, in fact, I was even more blessed than ever before!
So do you think they did it?
Did what? They took the money and bought bonds and invested and funded the crossover. Yes they did. We all know they did. How they did it sounds complicated but we did give them the mandate to invest the money.
If you are asking if I think they are guilty of the charges on them, the answer is no! There’s no reason why they needed to falsify accounts or conspire to commit criminal breach of trust. The intent was always clear from the start, there’s a crossover project and we needed to fund it.
I can’t say more since the trial is ongoing. But I know that I know that there was no intent to cheat.
What if the verdict is guilty?
Well, life goes on. The church goes on, there’s work to be done, people to counsel and encourage etc.
I don’t live my life on “what ifs” so I really don’t like this question. But if it is, we still have to move on. Would I be disappointed? Would I feel like my faith and trust was misplaced?
I would be disappointed cos I would very much want them all to walk off cleared of all charges. But I won’t feel my faith and trust was misplaced. I went into this with my eyes and ears wide open. I got to hear what would be done, I got to experience the blessings when it came. If the court decides they are guilty, it doesn’t take away the fruits of the crossover. It doesn’t undermine the blessings I experienced when I gave. It doesn’t rubbish the values and principles that Ps. Kong taught me through the years.
You heard the allegations. Don’t tell me you are ok with it? You won’t leave CHC?
Yes, I won’t leave. Why should I?
Every week, I still experience God’s presence in church. There’s wonderful praise and worship. There’s a good word each week that changes my life, challenges me and teaches my God’s ways. There’re people in my cell group who are around to love God together. There’re kids in Children’s Church who are learning great lessons from the Bible. There’s testimonies after testimonies of God’s goodness and presence. Why should I leave?
I’ve not even gone on the bit about being loyal and standing behind my pastors and friends who believe in the Crossover vision. Yes, I’ve heard the allegations. And as mentioned, they are allegations. I may not know all the explanations or stories behind these really unrelated allegations, but I know enough to be loyal.
These supposed insiders claim they know the inside stories. Their only claim to their insider relationship is with a renegade who broke ranks with the others. How is that fair to make a conclusion based on his allegations without hearing out the rest? I admit the allegations were eyebrow raising and truly tabloid material. BUT I’ve not seen any fruits of this man, I’ve not heard him preach. How can I leave CHC just because of his allegations? Isn’t it a basic expectation to hear how Pastor Kong can refute these claims? (and possibly Pastor Tan later)
Yes, I repeat, I’m not leaving. I just don’t see why I should.
Back to my statement from the beginning. I am from City Harvest Church, and it is a place I call my church and my life.
Note: I am a staff in CHC. Just to be clear. I’m still here not because I’ve no choice. I chose this church and I chose this job.The above are my personal views and I do not represent the staff or management of CHC. Although I don’t think I’m alone in these thoughts! 🙂
This post has garnered many comments. Naturally, the encouraging ones are all approved (who wouldn’t?) while I selectively approve those that don’t agree with me. I do try to address them but please know that I will just explain my point and not attempt to convince and turn this into a forum. If your comment is not approved, it doesn’t mean that I’m evading the issue, but really, why am I even explaining why?!? It’s my blog!
Above this, I must state that this is a family blog, any comments that are defamatory and derogatory will not be approved. My intention was never to stir negative emotions and fan any flames of hatred, or to hide behind strange names and identity. Thank you!
You stand strong in your convictions, and I think you should follow your heart. If you’re led to stay, then so be it!
Our Lord Jesus expect outsiders of God’s Kingdom,even within us,would speak falsely about us,and CHC leaders received countless of false accusations,all manner of falsehoods.The Lord told us,and we obey,to rejoice and be gald,to be mindful of our great rewards in Heaven,for having injustices.
Every Lie told about CHC leaders,God will judge severely them,because God is a Judge,crystal clear from Scriptures.
Can the secular world’s decision who convict them as guilty change anything,on our solid Faith,trust and Faith in God?No and never!
Truths be told,Old Testament shows God’s vengeance frequently on people.When Cho was falsely accused and hurt,Korean suffered great disasters of many school children died in a ship -capsized,not to say that God did it,but God just just stop protecting them.
What do you think if great injustices are done to CHC leaders,who were one of the Pillars of Singapore?I shudder to think of a great disasters harming our Lands,as God lift away His hands of Grace here.
Not to say we wish ill on Singapore,for we stay here,wish nothing harm to come here,but who can tell God not to take Revenge,when God Himself already said,””Vengeance is Mine,and I will repay””.
CHC has been around for some time,their deeds are publicly known,blessing others,doing great charities,and less teenagers gone to Disco Clubs and good moralities were shape.
My daughter was from another Church,so after seeing the greatness of CHC,and the injustice done to CHC leaders,we sent her to CHC,and we discover great and caring cell leaders,great wise Preachers were sharing God’s Words,so much better than many half-past six preachers,boring and dull.Although we have completely no-relationship with CHC,the distorted News we received from the public,instead of shying us away,we made CHC our Friend,and what are friends for?
i want to show to God that I love not only my circles of brethren,but could also Cross over to other brethren,though they were complete strangers to us.I just don’t want to miss a great opportunity,to bless CHC when they were in needs,so that there will be records in Heaven that I do that,for I really believe in God.
Despite the fact that I knew none of them,so from a neutral ground,I defend them,with countless of messages,(Few hundreds) explaining and siding them,with full honesty,all over the internet World,and in Singapore Coffee Talks,reasoning,challenging and explaining the issues.
One woman,a non-believer,said,after I told her and she believe in me-thes people are Viciously wicked,for it was Sun Ho who grew the Church and Funded the Church by her success and Talents,yet they twist the truths,and said otherwise.
I noticed many quickly switch opinions in favor of CHC just after my simple talks.
There are times when we follow peace, and no one else understands our choices.
I once worked for a ministry that had quite a few questionable, and infuriating moments. It took a great deal of time for me to heal from that experience, but one of the biggest lessons that I learned is that ministries are led by people, and none of those people are perfect. Does that mean that we can gloss over their imperfections, or if they break the law? No, but their actions should never have the power to change our faith.
My heart and prayers are with you.
Thank you for sharing. truly blessed.
No. You are not alone in these thoughts. Thanks for putting in words what I think and feel but not knowing how to express.
I wouldn’t say Kong’s words were untrue in the Courts, neither will I say CEH’s was making false accusations.
[CEH alleged that Kong Hee mentioned in the recording that he preached like “siao” because he needed to meet payments for the penthouse at Sentosa Cove.
(CEH wanted to use a 4.5 hour recording but the Judge stopped it as Edwin Tong and Tan Ye Peng’s lawyer objected to it repeatedly.)]
I will just leave it as that.
Hello, thanks for coming by the blog.
The recording was submitted as evidence in court. The judge did allow it.
The first quote about Ps Kong saying he preached like ‘siao’… was not mentioned in court.
I’m not sure where your evidence is from. Please advise.
Did you attend this particular hearing? This recording was submitted and the court allowed it?
hmm… the recording was submitted and it was agreed by all parties that they will use the TRANSCRIPT of the recording instead of the actual recording when referring to it during the cross examination. It was agreed that if there’s any discrepancy, they will refer back to the actual recording if necessary.
Thus the recording was admitted in court, the judge did allow it. Which also explains why Eng Han’s wife was not allowed back in the court as she was the originator of this evidence.
In any case, as your previous comment, I know what Eng Han is saying, and I did hear his allegations. And I still stand by my position in this post.
An excerpt from Marc’s article. Hope you can publish it to give your readers an unbiased viewpoint.
The problem is that the COC and prosecution consider that the SGD 24 millions were ILLEGALLY diverted from the church building fund. According to COC and prosecution, the deception comes from the fact that the transactions were presented as regular bond investments and that apart from the persons incriminated, the other board members, the executive members and the ordinary members were not told of the actual purpose of the bonds which was to fund Sun Ho attempt to breakthrough on the U.S. music scene. Furthermore the prosecution and trial proceedings have also highlighted the complete lack of independence of Xtron from CHC and the multiple problematic conflict of interests in the management of Xtron.
Thanks for coming by the blog and sharing the article.
That’s exactly what the charges are like for the 6 of them. and this is why we are on trial. My post is to explain why I’m still standing by them as the trial is being panned out.
The existence of the MPA, from a neutral point of view, is a big deal.
If its true that Kong Hee and people like you “tithe” to the MPA and direct all your contributions that would have gone to the Building Fund, into this MPA instead, then whenever you appeal to the rest of the CHC churchgoers for the BF, this info should have been revealed.
Among other things, this is so that the rest of the CHC people can make a wiser choice on how much to contribute to the building fund.
Thanks for coming by the blog.
I realised there are many questions about MPA. I should write a post on it soon!
Very briefly, to address your question, the MPA was by a group of individuals. It’s like if you collected a birthday gift fund for a cell group member. It is separate from any offering collection in church, and in your comment–the Building Fund. It is not true that all my contributions that would have gone to the building fund went to the MPA. I hope this helps.
Appreciate your reply. I guess I was incredulous to read during the trial that Kong Hee testified he never gave to the building fund or tithe to the church, and directed all his contributions to the MPA instead. Will be looking forward to reading your reflection on the MPA.
I attend NCC and, to be fair, I am also extremely curious to know whether there is a significant group of NCC Christians who basically chose to direct their tithes, that would have gone to the church directly, into buying Joseph Prince media resources such as his CDs/DVDs/books instead, especially after he kept telling us that he is no longer in the church payroll. In economics, this is what we call the “crowding out effect”.
After this court case, no matter the final conclusion, I certainly wish it would lead to a new norm where mega churches are obliged to reveal more of their income-expenditure statements perhaps quarterly, if not monthly.
All Christians should benefit from this increased transparency, cheers!
I do not doubt the sincerity of your post but I have two comments:
1. It is fine that as a staff you know where you have put your money into. But what about the general congregation? Your pastor stated that at one time, your church congregation is 33000 strong. What about now? 15000? 10000?
If half the congregation has left, a big alarm bell should ring. They have voted with their feet that they did not know & do not agree with what their money is put into. The church cannot simply dismiss this issue and bury it in the name of family & unity, love & grace. There ought to be proper accountability before healing and restoration can take place in the church.
2. You believe in the cross over project. Your pastor stated that hundreds of thousands attended the concert. Strangely, I have not read a single testimony online about lives touched by the love of Jesus through the concerts or songs. Perhaps there are articles in Chinese which I have missed. I certainly hope so. But I have read many articles that are negative & critical about the songs as well as Christianity. This is truly very sad. Again, I think the church leadership ought to honestly rebook at their evangelism strategy. If a mistake was made, admit it, then learn from it & move forward. Do not hold on to something out of allegiance to one or two leaders.
Finally, I would like to say that your church is blessed to have a member like you – one who clearly loves the church & is fully behind the leaders.
Hi Dorcas, thanks for coming by the blog.
1. Some of the members left when the trial started. I understand when you see it as them voting with their feet and not agreeing with the church.
But that doesn’t mean the church has dismissed the issue and buried it. There are times when the leaders meet up with various ones to explain and hear their views. We are just unable to do it big scale in a weekend service as the trial is ongoing. The notion of subjudice is very real and there are some things that just have to wait.
2. There are many testimonies on the crossover. You can find out more here: http://www.chc.org.sg/crossover/english
🙂 Thank you for sharing! Indeed, we are all still here. May the peace of God surpass all understanding.
There is no right and wrong in this sharing.
Just a few questions which it would be wonderful if you can help enlighten your readers. Yes, you gave your full support and approval for the project and donated wholeheartedly, then, how about those who were kept in the dark and induced to donate under the pretext of using God’s name and bible text? What if the person and group of people who founded the church started it so as to live the high life off the people who donated to it? What if your beliefs are placed falsely in a place where it is not supposed to be?
May the Good Lord give you the insights and answers to discern what is real and what is perceived.
Hi Kay, thanks for coming by the blog.
I don’t agree that the congregation was induced to donate under the pretext of using God’s name and bible text.
They were not kept in the dark, as it was mentioned funds will be used to invest. These were in AGMs and minutes were taken.
And it is not true that the person and group of people who founded the church started it to live the high life off the people who donated to it.
And if my beliefs are placed falsely in a place, the fruits would show for it. So far, my beliefs are in the right place. 🙂
Oh it has been mentioned that it’ll be invested? Pardon me, but dare you tell that to the court? Also, ‘invest’.. that’s a very subjective, seemingly financially professional. Think twice before this term is being used. Doubt you would like if I took your money to invest. The uncertainty is unwise. I’m sure that is similar to how some church members being under a particular impression that the money is for direct church building purposes. There has been no transparency, and all is leveraged on trust. Call it non conventional ‘church building’, call it new age revolution, whatever it may be. There is a reason why this issue is deemed unacceptable according to the law and is taken up to court.
Weirdly enough, general public has been getting the impression that leaders are indeed living the high life, using church funds. How does this help with church’s mission of evangelism? It seems one factor can be justified by another, since you testified by your good fruits from good beliefs. Is that a double standard i spot?
hello Watta you doing:
yes I dare tell that to the court. it was in AGM minutes. It was trasnscripted.
Taking money to invest is a common feature in churches, societies and charities now. The issue perhaps is more what did they invest in.
But yes, we knew the money would go into investment.
Just happen to pass by yr post via singaporedaily.net…
“But I know that I know that there was no intent to cheat.”
I would think likewise. This is true also of PAP govt, they are sincere about what they believe their goal to be, their motives, noble ones all.
The issue here is that they were trying not to break or circumvent any laws. All very well. In fact, one can say that they were sincerely trying to ‘render to Cesar what’s Cesar’s’. On this point of intent, only God can judge.
Still, the above leads us to the next issue. This time in the witness stand, the affidavits.
Will it be lying or telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Again, God knows. But in this case, so do all the defendants.
Perhaps, if you look up the viewship stats for this particular post and if you find the numbers reading to be interesting, it will do well if you write your views about how Ms Sun Ho’s China Wine dance video measures up to Matt 5:13-16.
That would be an issue that is more obvious than the complicated issue of law re the CHC trial. I would be interested to learn how CHC members, with you as one rep, think about this aspect. Thx and God bless.
As you put it, only God can judge. As a church member, I’m standing by my leaders. For those who can’t, it’s ok to disagree. but I don’t think that gives anyone a right to judge.
My intention was never to raise the readership of my blog. There’s been numerous debates and discussions on the China Wine MV. As a member, we see it as a part of a performance or role she’s in. It’s certainly not a lifestyle. I understand and accept that there are many who are unable to reconcile that. I am not going to attempt to convince anyone. But this is a point that we just have to disagree.
You wrote: “There’s been numerous debates and discussions on the China Wine MV. As a member, we see it as a part of a performance or role she’s in.”
“The issue of Crossover and the questionable MTVs and attire has been argued and discussed many times. I will just briefly say that it was a means to fit into culture, and this was just a part of a persona put on in the MTV. ”
As a fellow christian, I wonder – Isn’t the view above ‘dangerous’? Because it also means we can compromise on our behaviour / doing, since it is only a ‘role’ in a performance? If a role asks for us to dress very skimpily, dance sensually (like what Sun did in China Wine), then it is okay? It is still glorifying God?
Role-playing a drug addict is okay. I agree. But role-playing a drug addict who had topless scenes in a movie / wearing see-through shirts, for example, ….errr … isn’t it our choice in the end on what we should / shouldn’t do?
Jesus ate with sinners, He lived with them, BUT Christ did NOT become like them in order to attract them to believe. Jesus did NOT try to ‘fit’ into their sinful culture. There’s a certain extent to what Jesus did when He lived among sinners, and for sure, Jesus never comprised His Father’s holiness. Jesus stayed holy, lived holy, and lived a life that’s a holy reflection of His Father in heaven. In the same way, He wanted us to do the same? No?
It is dangerously confusing christians and non-christians. Just be careful and not be a stumbling block, is what I hope to say. The whole CHC case produces a whole load of extra cursing on christianity, and it saddens me =(
Thanks for coming by the blog!
I understand your point of view and arguments. But I don’t think Sun became a drug addict (using the parallels you gave). And she wasn’t a topless drug addict too. It’s more, she role played a drug addict, filmed as if she was really snorting the drug and acted out how a drug addict on high would be.
But I know what you mean when you say we have to be careful and not be a stumbling block. And I agree too.. But if the curses come from the unbelievers, that’s expected. But the curses that have been coming from fellow christians, that saddens me too. But thank you for being kind with your words. I appreciate it.
I have read a lot of arguments for and against your Pastors and Church. I really admire your loyalty to your Pastors and your Church…but really, where is Jesus here? Do you think Jesus will agree with you? And…How is Jesus real to you in these times?
Thanks for dropping by the blog.
My loyalty is always to God first, then to the church and the pastors. I’m not sure how to quantify how real Jesus is in our midst without inviting you to come and experience or see His goodness and presence in our meetings and services. As Jesus is real to you, He is very real to me too, when I see His glory and goodness. When I hear of miracles and testimonies. When there’s salvation in the families. The examples and instances are countless.
But I’m not here to defend where Jesus is. I think it’s great that you know and love Him too, and let’s focus on that and telling others about Him. 🙂
Thanks for sharing, would certainly like to hear your views about the MV of Mr Bill and China Wine. How are they honoring God.
Hi Leon, thanks for coming by the blog.
My views of these two MVs are purely one that just fits right into what the American public is looking for. If this is the genre they like, we produce a MV of this genre.
Honoring God is a lifestyle. And producing the MV is not the same as a lifestyle. (as per acting as a drug addict in a movie) There have been many arguments and discussions about this… some of it have turned into finger pointing or pure damning sessions. I do not wish to go into that as that’s not my intention in this blog. I hope this helps!
God gave us all a free will to choose the options that are made available to us, but not the free will to choose the outcomes of our own decision-making. Choose to stick around as you wish, but turbulent as it may be, you may be in for an exciting ride. At least you will get to see first-hand what happens to those who were initially appointed by Him to faithfully feed His sheep, but lost sight of the Lord in the process, and instead of finding their way back to God time and time again, they wandered away to pursue their own selfish agendas and desires. God has gave them many chances to return to His calling for them, but they still went their own way, and now they will get their just desserts. Don’t ever put God to the test. There is a limit to His patience when a whole congregation is at stake here, so leaders, don’t ever try to be funny and go test Him. It ain’t funny. There are its consequences and they are inevitable. Do be aware that God is not the culprit of the troubles that CHC is undergoing right now, the real culprits are the people who are responsible for engineering this disaster in the first place, and they got to have a taste of the outcome now. Some of the congregation may choose to stand behind their leaders, in a bid to help them, but it is not going to stop these individuals from receiving the outcome of their actions. The whole episode of having to go through all these with the law of the country might just be the outcome itself, it may seem unnecessary, but it serves as a lesson learnt. All that I am saying is, don’t be disheartened when the leaders whom you once look up to are being brought down or being subdued – they are mere humans and they do make mistakes, but if mistakes go too far and boil over, every error that is not rectified has to receive its due intervention at some point in time in order for it to come to a complete stop. See that it is for your sakes that God deems it right to start restoring His church to His standard, and He is doing all these for you because He loves you, else He wouldn’t be too bothered about whatever they did if it does not concern His people at all. Look to Him and Him alone, and not to a mere man, leader or pastor. CHC is undergoing trying times, so in all this, stay faithful to Him and just look to Him alone. Putting your trust in your Saviour as He leads His flock out of the valley of shadow and death that they lead the church in by their own foolish actions.
Note: I am just trying to put things into perspective here, you may find it hard to digest, but it is the truth of the matter. Your leaders may have prior, good intentions for engaging the Crossover project, but it is just not the Lord’s style of doing things in this world that He created – He should know better. We do not have to be like the world in order to win the world for God. We just need to be more like Jesus and the world will see Christ in us! I know that God still has His plans for CHC, which is why all these has to happen, else He could have just closed it. Just to be clear, I am not a member of CHC, neither am I against CHC in any way, but I am for God and for His people everywhere. I feel comforted by the fact that you chose to be loyal to your calling by God to continue serving in the children’s church, and sitting out the storm until everything has passed. God really loves the young tots a lot and you are doing Him a big favour by ministering into their lives. Thank you, sis!
My heart and prayers are with you and CHC, including your leaders.
May God’s grace and mercy be upon His people everywhere.
I’m a member in CHC for 14 yrs. This is truly what I’ve wanted to say but couldn’t express in words. I’m staying becos CHC is my family. What I’ve sow these years cannot compared to the blessings I’ve received and is still receiving! I’ll continue to give and witness the salvation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m truly blessed
this is my first time on this blog, I wish you share what is the one most important practice in life that keeps you in such optimism. I know it’s your faith in God, but I would love to hear how have you walk the talk (those good preaching you heard over the years). I ask this question because I am in genuine need to know how to love my life more as a Christian. 🙂
Hi Charis, thanks for dropping by the blog.
One most important practice is really just to be grounded in Word of God. You can email me privately with your real email address and we can chat further. 🙂
I am from another church and I felt sick reading the news about KH everyday. Tried to stay clear of the gossip. Yes, I too am shaken abit by the news sensation. Yes indeed, they are tabloid material.
Thank you for giving of your view. Is good to keep things in perspective, our stand with God and not dependence on people. Not letting go of what is more importance rather than some human failure or accusation which crowd our thinking.
Yes you are not alone in your thoughts! Thank you for this post 😀 I stand and believe with the leadership of the church!
I’m happy to read an alternative view of the fracas, & now know there are believers who wld stay for the right reasons from ur blog. That’s why i wld even leave a post.
Just some points that remain unaddressed, which is how the outreach can happen with questionable MTVs & attire. & the testimony that it gives to non believers.
I do think that God does His work despite His ministers & hence u are well taken care of. Keep the faith sister!
Hi Pauline, thanks for dropping by the blog.
The issue of Crossover and the questionable MTVs and attire has been argued and discussed many times. I will just briefly say that it was a means to fit into culture, and this was just a part of a persona put on in the MTV. I understand why many cannot reconcile this, and I also understand why the genre/song/attire was chosen. As you said, God does His work, and I know he did through the crossover project. I hope that can help you agree with me, to disagree on your stand on the questionable MTVs and attire.
This comment is from a Christian in Singapore. I totally understand where you come from. Perhaps non-Christians won’t understand a lot of what’s going on. So I applaud you for speaking out for what you believe. You have the right to use your money in the way you want to – no matter how stupid it is in the eyes of others. And, to be honest, if I were in your position, I may have used it the same way, who knows.
Having said that, I don’t think it’s right of you to say “These supposed insiders claim they know the inside stories. Their only claim to their insider relationship is with a renegade who broke ranks with the others. ” I don’t know exactly who/what you’re referring to but if it refers to the “renegade” in the news, then I think you’re not being objective here.
There are lot of issues that can’t be just swept under the rug. Also, I think you have to understand that there are also many thousands of City Harvesters who have left who feel/have felt deceived.
Personally, I like pastor Kong Hee. I think he’s a very humble guy compared to many other mega church pastors. I think his heart is really right there for God. I don’t think he has used the funds for his own gain.
But that alone is not good enough for many people in the world. There are still a lot of questions out there that have come out during this trial. His heart may be right, but he may have done some things wrongly and that needs to be admitted and it doesn’t do the reputation of Christians any good if we just defend Kong Hee to death and not realize some mistakes have been made.
I wish Kong Hee the best – because I believe his heart is right. I give him the benefit of the doubt. But I do think that things were probably handled badly. Hey, no one is perfect! But it takes courage to admit some stuff was probably done wrongly. Of course, if that’s so, it may not be the “wisest” thing in the court of justice to admit any wrong doing. But I think for you, as a supporter, you should also realize it’s not going to do you or Christians or City Harvesters any good by defending KH and the church to death and starting to point fingers at “renegades”.
Hi Jon, thanks for coming by the blog. And I appreciate your comment.
Just wanted to address the bit about the issues of supposed insiders. Many of those who left would say they did after hearing more stories from ABC, who knows EFG, who is HIJ’s neighbour and who used to be Eng Han’s member. [I’m trying to say, their source would inevitably end up in that direction].
He is entitled to his comments just as all of us. But I don’t think it’s fair if one makes a conclusion based on this alone. Don’t forget, the remaining defendants have not spoken, and the case is ongoing. Which means they can’t make outside court statements without running the risk of subjudice.
All I’m asking is for everyone to hear the full story. From ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVQXYZ and from all the defendants. Then make up your mind.
I hope this explains what I meant in my post. 🙂
Thank you for sharing this! Some of the questions have been asked to me a lot of times by friends and I just not sure how to phrase it such that they understand. And I’ve been bombarded many times to leave but I just can’t and won’t cuz CHC is my home and family. Now this will be my “guide” on how to answer those questions. ;D
You’re definitely not alone in these thoughts. We aren’t brainwashed/naive/ignorant (i definitely dun wanna be), and we know why we are here. God is here & i am thankful i’m still here. Love this post JH! 🙂
Thank you for the post; it is great to see posts like this. I have been a member in City Harvest Church, Kuala Lumpur for over 8 years now, and Pastor Kong and his ministry has impacted my life tremendously. Stand firm and stay strong. Keeping all of you and the leadership of the church in prayer.
Not expecting to fan flames of hatred while adding fuel? Come on now.. I gotta say, comments are usually my favorite sections of any writing platform. By adding a screen shield, there is really no point in posting this online when it’s all just going to be one sided. How about saving that for your journal? Dont contradict in your actions and your speech. Please understand that your actions of starting this particular topic online will potentially invite high traffic and leading to many assorted opinions. Go ahead and stub out what you don’t want to hear. And leave this comment unapproved (prove me wrong). Don’t you think it resembles a child’s tantrum by declaring ‘this is my blog,’.
And I’m not really hiding behind a screen when my name, my kids pictures and etc are all out to public domain.
Rather, I’ve no idea who you are, and it’s no wonder comments are your favourite sections of any writing platform. You chose well I must say then! 🙂
I’ve enough trolls cursing my family and kids which is totally unwarranted and that explains the screen shield. But I’m not going to throw any more tantrums although this really is my blog.
Standing up for what you believe in is probably one of the best lessons you can teach your children. Good for you!
I remember when you first posted about this, I had no idea of the ‘scandal’ so I did a little reading. I pray that the truth will come out during the trial. I think as an outsider, that is the best I can offer.
Love your sharing! 🙂 So true! standing with the church and with the leaders as well!
I was in CHC for more than 6 years from the time they were in CityHall, to Paya Lebar, however, I later left as the values of the church do not resonate with what I felt God has for me.
I just wanted to say that I was there when the first mention of the cross-over project was mention. Pastor Kong played and song “all I wanted to do is make love to you” and told the congregation that this song is what filled the world and that the cross over project is to spread love and the right messages to the world and let people know about God. I agree that it was a noble and values right..
Fast forward to today, after seeing China Wine and other world songs , look at how Sun Ho lived and how money is spend on overly lavish lifestyles.. I am just not sure how does it promote Godly values ? How is it different from what Pastor Kong was trying to change ? Jesus is also rich but we do not read in any text of Him spending it this way..
I was in CHC as well when I saw how peer pressure is used as well as how God name is sometimes is made to look like nothing more than the Chinese God of Fortune. Give and you will be given a 100 fold ? .. this was never a guarantee on earth but only by his blessings and in heaven.
I am not against having money but isn’t there a limit when the money is from the church ?
Anyway, like you say, this is a family blog but still, this is a public website for people to see and it is unavoidable that you will get comments of all kinds.
I admire your commitment to the church but I do hope that you rethink about the values of what the church is doing and perhaps be one of the movers that will steer the church to greater heights.
Hi, I was also a member of CHC, I was baptized in CHC, tithed, gave offerings, bible studies, pledged for building funds, was in the Choir ministry and even sang on the stage numerous times. And “supported” the crossover project even though to tell you the truth I wasn’t 100% sure what was going on since I was 16-17 yr old at that time.
I often had to chose between paying for my meals or giving to the church because I come from a poor single parent family. I left the church back then (before the trial obviously) because when I was weak spiritually, I turned to my leaders for support and to my disappointment and shock, they couldn’t provide me any. Instead, they gave me “I don’t know” as answers. So I left. The head pastor for my zone was Tan Ye Peng.
This aside, I would like to ask you, have you ask yourself the question that sometimes you believe in certain things because You Want To Believe Them. Not because it’s worth believing or whatsoever. We humans has the ability to make ourselves believe in lies if we want to. There are a lot of women who would go back to an abusive relationship even though everyone else can clearly see how it’s not right. Take a moment and think about it.
I have no doubts on God’s blessings on you and I don’t question what Jesus did for all of us. But humans are not God and there are a lot of “religious” people in the world who are not doing the right things in the name of God. I am sure you would have received the same blessings even if you wouldn’t in CHC, because God is the same yesterday, today and we all worship the same God. But we don’t worship our pastors. Thank you.
Thanks for coming by the blog.
I’m sorry your questions were left unanswered. If you would like to talk to someone, you can email me separately.
Just like to clarify that when I mention that I am still blessed here, I’m not giving credit to the pastors or the leaders here in CHC. And I’m definitely not purporting that only CHC christians are blessed. I’ve family members in different churches are they too are wonderfully blessed. What I meant to say is, I don’t think I’m giving to a wrong cause, because I am still blessed. If I’m doing something so wrong, then surely all the principles of God about tithing, sowing and reaping would not come to pass? But that’s not the case now…
I hope this helps clarify matters. Thank you, looking forward to hearing from you via email if you like.
It’s wonderful when you feel God’s presence. Follow your heart!
The trail has shown that KH’s claim that no church fund was used to fund the crossover project is not true. You said you don’t mind how your money was used but have you considered that other may mind, and many do. So do you think you have the right to decide for these people who are your church members that it should also ok for them?
You said “And when I gave, I didn’t lose anything. I was still blessed just as I’ve been before the Crossover started. I sowed, and I reaped. The same principle was still very much at work! I had financial breakthroughs, blessings, beautiful children, lovely family etc. I wasn’t shortchanged, in fact, I was even more blessed than ever before!”
So would it have been a different story here is you did not reap?
Thanks for coming by the blog.
I guess one must first recognise that in every church, the usage of funds is determined by a selected group of people, and not the entire congregation. The empowerment for this group of people is usually by the voting members of the church (as stipulated by individual church’s constitution). It’s the same in every society, where only voting members get to vote. And it is true that the voting members were ok with the decision how the money can be used. so if put very bluntly, do the voting members have a right to decide for the congregation? I’d say yes.
If I did not reap, it would be one of those what if scenarios which would be really quite challenging to answer. It’s like would it be a different story if I didn’t pass my PSLE, or if my dad didn’t meet my mum… The issue is, I was and am blessed. So I’m not shortchanged. If I was cursed and poor and jobless and single, would I say I’m blessed? I don’t know honestly. I think I would still say I am, since we were taught to be grateful for all things (see my other post this week!) 🙂
I would like to point out that even if decision is made by voting members, there must be some form of oversight and fiduciary duty. The case in court now involves more than one person and the issue of collusion has to be addressed. Because of the revelations in court, this also puts all other voting processes and people involved under suspicion.
Whether you leave or not and because of what reason is your personal matter. My own simplistic guess is that all those who left have not been blessed or feel cheated, while those who are staying have been blessed.
Anyway, thank you for your disclosure on being a staff member.
Hi Mumse, good to hear that you’re still in CHC. The place definetely needs people to take care of it at this time.
This doesn’t mean that I agree with what Pst Kong has done though. He must have known from the beginning that if things were to be revealed to the general public much more directly, people would’ve been more adverse to give to the building fund and some would question it. Now that things have come to this, it is very sad to know that a lot of people has back slid from this and that the entire Christian community stands to suffer from this: A lot of people already have their reason to not attend church and believe in Christ, now they have another very big one.
1 Corinthians 8:9-13
Becareful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.
I’m sorry your church is going through what seems to be a break between some of its members and others. Divisiveness in any form is how the devil loves to play the game in churches isn’t it?
ultimately, whether I agree or disagree with someone, I applaud anyone who is strong in their convictions. As long as you feel you are doing the right thing, that is what’s important!